Scaring the straights

[wendyzski]

I wanted to write this down as soon as I got back from MiRF, but wanted to think about it first.

Now, anyone who has seen jmthane and tarsa together for any length of time comments on how deliriously happy they are together. Sometimes it's a bit much, especially if you're flying solo, but no one can doubt that they are very much in love.

We were having dinnner at the Big Boy near the faire site on Saturday night. Josie & Nan were acting just like they always do - equal parts snuggly and wisecracking, lots of giggles and a few smooches. Nothing out of the ordinary. But I looked over at the next table, and there was a little boy, maybe 6 or 7, with this big-eyed stare. Sadly, I turned to Josie and said "I hate to have to say this, but you're scaring the straights".

Of course, they immediately backed off. We're not in sophisticated Chicago any more, and it didn't seem the place to get into anything with complete strangers. We were encouraged by the sort-of-shy smile that the boys mother gave them, but it sort of tainted the evening a bit.

The more I think about it, the more upset I get. The debate about gay marriage may be in the news, and that it an important issue, but the simple fact that two people in love have to worry about how people will react to them, that they have to 'monitor their behavior' in some way to avoid giving offense - there is something deeply and fundementally wrong about that.

My standard comment when telling people about them is "and since they are two ladies who are to be wed, they BOTH get sparkly rocks!" And all weekend I watched everyone (including very butch security women) go absolutely gooey when they learned about the engagement.

It just left a vaguely nasty taste in my mouth.

Comments

[thatliardiego.livejournal.com]

...but the simple fact that two people in love have to worry about how people will react to them, that they have to 'monitor their behavior' in some way to avoid giving offense - there is something deeply and fundementally wrong about that.

I'm a black guy who's dated white women all his life. I always watch my back. Everywhere.

I can walk into a room and tell you how many black people are in it without looking, and if there are any interracial couples.

Sad to say, but it ain't just GLBTs, hon. The times ain't changed all that much or that fast, in many, many ways.

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

Sad to say, but it ain't just GLBTs, hon.

Oh, I'm sure, but that's what I've seen the most. I'm a white suburban-bred girl who now lives on the pale end of Chicago. There was one black guy in my high school (ironically, his name was Jim White). So it's not something I experience on a daily basis.

Not that it doesn't totally suck too - but that if I don't see it, I don;t tend to think to write about it.

[that-david.livejournal.com]

the simple fact that two people in love have to worry about how people will react to them, that they have to 'monitor their behavior' in some way to avoid giving offense - there is something deeply and fundementally wrong about that.

I agree wholeheartedly. I will, however, add one small caveat. The child in question is so young, that even if his parents are pro-gay rights, he may never have seen two women behaving in such a fashion. More of a "I didn't know that was possible" than a "I don't think that's right." But that probably accounts for the "vaguely" part.

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

Yeah - the mom's tentative smile seemed to be a "I'm a little startled but good for you" kind of thing as well.

But it still got me thinking deep thoughts on what was generally a light and fun weekend.

[cozit.livejournal.com]

The other thought is that gigglies and smoochies, etc. in restaurants even between a young guy and gal will get that same response from some kids (in fact it's even more likely to get comments of one sort or another from same kid :-)

And I've noticed that that same behavior in folks my age and older (though pre-true gray) gets wierd looks (as in 'don't you know better than to behave that way in public).

Of course, unless it's intense, the same thing when both are grey-haired pulls "Awww, isn't that sweet" responses.

[silverstah.livejournal.com]

The other thought is that gigglies and smoochies, etc. in restaurants even between a young guy and gal will get that same response from some kids (in fact it's even more likely to get comments of one sort or another from same kid :-)

yeah, Himself and I get gawked at every once in a while - we tend to be pretty affectionate with each other. I blame it on the fact that we lived 2700 miles apart for the first 6 months of our relationship. :)

[angelle-n-brian.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm against discrimination also, but I have to chime in on the thought that ANYONE doing a PDA (public display etc. etc.) is going to get gawked at/disapproved of by some folks, no matter what sex/sexes they are.

Personally, I'm one of the stuffy folks who think that PDAs should be, well, not "P". I guess that makes me a "Get a Roomer" in my old age. *sigh*

[museclio]

See my take on it is Screw the Straights. If a man and a woman can do it then so can two women and the straights who don't like it need to grow up. If they are offended that is their problem, not that of the couple who are being perfectly acceptable.

[cyohtee.livejournal.com]

Of course there is also the school of thought that even a man and woman doing that in public can be offensive (not that I care, but I have heard plenty of people complain about a young couple acting overly affectionate in public. The usual response is "Get a room."). Before I even got to Wendy's reason for being put off by the reaction my thinking wasn't "oh dear, the straits are just not with it enough to deal" but instead "Hmm... I could see the same reaction to any couple in public from a lot of people just for the kissing and cuddling in front of them." Just goes to show the many ways to look at the same picture and come away with a different response. :)

That's the arguement my sister makes

[brassangel.livejournal.com]

We played on a recreational soccer league and there were several lesbains in the league. Most of them kept in low-key, but one season there was a couple who kept kissing on each other. My sister explained at that time "I dont kiss all over my husband in public, I don't think it's appropriate behaviour. I dont want to have to explain to my small children why ANYONE is doing that in public"

Re: That's the arguement my sister makes

[tarsa.livejournal.com]

Now here's a question~~Why isn't it considered appropriate behavior? I don't mean two people giving each other tonsillectomies and groping genitals in public, daring anyone to say anything negative. That's politics. I am referring to basic affection between two loving people.

If I choose to sit at a restaurant with my arm around my fiancee, occasionally kissing (pecking) her shoulder, cheek, or lips then what is the harm? Hetero couples do it all the time everywhere, *including church*. I know. I've seen it. I've always been extremely pleased to witness (any) people in love showing the world that they are a couple. Perhaps if "Get a room" were replaced by, "Good for you!" we would have far fewer instances of "shocked straights" or any other form of gay/ethnic/etc. bashing.

Ok

[brassangel.livejournal.com]

You are correct and generally when I see a couple, ,straight gay, what have you, giving that kind of affection, showing that they are obviously in love, well, I get a bit gushy. It's sweet. and my general attitude is "Good for them" My sister is a bit more of a prude than I am though, and she and her husband generally dont display any kind of affection towards one another in public. I actually have always felt that that was a bit sad. But it's her choice I guess.

[jfc013.livejournal.com]

To me, it sounds like the thing that stopped them was YOU. I'd have had to be there to perceive if there were any negative judgements going on in the room...

[silverstah.livejournal.com]

Frankly....

Fuck 'em.

I'm tired of that sort of bullshit. I'm tired of the fact that my friends feel they need to hide parts of who they are from the general public. I'm tired of the fact that *my* faith isn't acceptable to others. I'm tired of the fact that the mindset of the few seems to rule this country.

I'm just tired.

Bleah. Sorry. You hit a nerve with that story.... they're two people, in love. Why shouldn't they be able to show it?

[wendyzski.livejournal.com]

When we're on a business trip, we need to be extremely careful about how we represent ourselves. Anything getting back to the faire office can mean the loss of a gig. Sad, but true. We take off out pentagrams when doing gigs in Bible Belt territory too.

[silverstah.livejournal.com]

Bleah.

Although I know what you mean - I, too, have to work hard to maintain a professional, benign image to faire staff (on the rare occasions I do vend) and the general public.

So, I guess if this was close to a gig... I can see wanting to tone it down.

It still irks me, though.

[butterflybill.livejournal.com]

Another reason for me not to go ape with the PDAs is that it can make people who are single and lonely feel even worse. I don't thinks it is just a question of "sophisticated city" vs. hicks.

[tarsa.livejournal.com]

Nope. Sorry Bill, but I refuse to dampen my happiness on the chance that someone else may feel a bit down witnessing it. That is a measure of political correctness and I will not apologize for expressing the joy that my engagement has given me. OTOH, I'm not going to deliberately rub it in the face of someone whom I personally know to be going through the angst of being alone. I had been there for quite a few years myself (and Josie far longer), but I've always been happy for those folk who were lucky enough to find someone who loves them as much as they love that person.

[microwench.livejournal.com]

And both sparkly rocks are oh-so-pretty!!

[tarsa.livejournal.com]

*GRIN*

Thank you!

How did you like your facial~in~a~bag?